Discussion:
Relevent Dialog from City on the Edge of Forever:
(too old to reply)
Will Dockery
2004-06-03 14:13:02 UTC
Permalink
SPOCK: "This is how history went after McCoy changed it. Here... the late
1930s -- a growing pacifist movement whose influence delayed the United
States' entry into the Second World War. While peace negotiations dragged
on, Germany had time to complete its heavy-water experiments.They won the
Second World War... because all this lets them develop the A-bomb first.
There's no mistake, Captain.Let me run it again. Edith Keeler, founder of
the peace movement."
KIRK: "But she was right. Peace was the way."
SPOCK: "She was right, but at the wrong time. With the A-bomb, and with
their V-2 rockets to carry them, Germany captured the world."
SPOCK: "I've slowed down the recording we made from the time vortex.
"February 23, 1936." Six years from now. "The president and... Edith
Keeler... conferred for some time today -- "
KIRK: "How bad?"
SPOCK: "Bad enough. The president and Edith Keeler. It would seem unlikely,
Jim, a few moments ago, I read a 1930 newspaper article. We know her future.
Within six years from now, she'll become very important, nationally famous.
Or, Captain, Edith Keeler will die this year. I saw her obituary. Some sort
of traffic accident."
MCCOY: "Perhaps there's something I can do around here to thank you.
KEELER: "We can talk about that later. I have to go. My young man is taking
me to a Clark Gable movie.
MCCOY: A who movie?"
KEELER: "A Clark Gab-- Don't you know?"
MCCOY: Well, I know what a movie is, but...
KEELER: "That's very strange. You get some rest. I'll see you later."
This places COTEOF in 1930.
It requires Nazi nukes for them to win WW2.
McCoy's perplexity about Clark Gable would not seem remotely out of place in
1930, as Gable had only been credited with two movies (as minor supporting
roles), he was unknown in 1930, and did not make it big until 1931... We
know it is not 1931, because Keeler is toast in 1930.
Jonathan
None of this is in the *first* script by Harlan Ellison, except Spock
mentioning that the Nazis had time to develop the atomic bomb... he
did a re-write, then a couple others followed, which I haven't checked
this morning. Maybe after coffee...
Barney Dannelke
2004-06-06 00:36:28 UTC
Permalink
... he
Post by Will Dockery
did a re-write, then a couple others followed, which I haven't checked
this morning. Maybe after coffee...
The re-write was 90% Bjo Trimble.

- Barney Dannelke
Pip R. Lagenta
2004-06-06 06:40:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 00:36:28 GMT, "Barney Dannelke"
Post by Will Dockery
... he
Post by Will Dockery
did a re-write, then a couple others followed, which I haven't checked
this morning. Maybe after coffee...
The re-write was 90% Bjo Trimble.
Bjo Trimble? Perhaps you mean Dorothy Fontana.


¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,
Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°

-- Pip R. Lagenta
President for Life
International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
(If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
---
<http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
(For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
Will Dockery
2004-06-06 13:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pip R. Lagenta
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 00:36:28 GMT, "Barney Dannelke"
Post by Will Dockery
... he
Post by Will Dockery
did a re-write, then a couple others followed, which I haven't checked
this morning. Maybe after coffee...
The re-write was 90% Bjo Trimble.
Bjo Trimble? Perhaps you mean Dorothy Fontana.
Yes, it's all in Ellison's book on the making of "City On The Edge Of
Forever", still in print. It has his first version, and several of the
rewrites, and page after page of classic Harlan Ellison rants... great
stuff!
Will
Barney Dannelke
2004-06-06 14:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pip R. Lagenta
Bjo Trimble? Perhaps you mean Dorothy Fontana.
Nope. I understand that Fontana would be one of the usual suspects but
unless I'm completely misremembering the thrust of Ellison's introduction
AND Bjo was lying [and there is no percentage in that here] it was Bjo.

- Barney Dannelke

Youcouldstilllookitup, PA.
Bill Warren
2004-06-06 19:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barney Dannelke
The re-write was 90% Bjo Trimble.
?? I hadn't heard that before. Where did you find that information?
Barney Dannelke
2004-06-07 12:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Okay - It's 8:15 AM and I have to go BUT Bjo Trimble wrote an essay about
her involvement with that episode of Trek and the essay appeared in the
Jul/Aug. 1994 issue of Galaxy around the same time Harlan was composing his
ammended [and subsequent extended ammended] remarks for the Borderland and
WhiteWolf editions of COTEOF.

I have just scanned ALL 3 editions of that intro. [approx. 195 pages] and
cannot find Harlan's specific remarks about Bjo. This means either my
ability to speed read with comprehension is diminishing - believe it - OR
Harlan made these remarks about Bjo AFTER he wrote those introductions.
Maybe it's in that large format TV GUIDE commemorative thing. Maybe it's in
some other post 1995 Ellison introduction.

Whatever. I know he spoke at length [approx. 2 pages comes to mind]
SOMEWHERE about his finding out that Bjo was the one who did the final
re-write and that he found this out sometime in the mid 1990's because no
sane person wanted to stand on that barricade and catch that bullet.

Maybe Doug or somebody with a better memory than mine can nail this one
home. I would hope after 6 years here, 8 years on Webderland and 27 years of
knowing Harlan I can at least be trusted to not make this stuff up out of
whole cloth.

- Barney Dannelke
Post by Bill Warren
Post by Barney Dannelke
The re-write was 90% Bjo Trimble.
?? I hadn't heard that before. Where did you find that information?
Barney Dannelke
2004-06-08 12:27:55 UTC
Permalink
Arrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I completely fucked that up.

You guys were right. Mark it on your calenders and send me cards every year
from now on.

It WAS D.C. Fontana and if instead of reading that intro. three times
yesterday I had bothered to read D.C.'s AFTERWORD - WHICH WAS STARING ME IN
THE FACE - I'd have never said what I said. Why my brain decided to
associate that with Bjo I will never know but I'm taking it out behind the
shed and pimp slapping it as soon as I finish typing this.

Doug pointed me in the right direction and I am once again in his debt. You
simply have no idea how many more ninjas this means I have to kill.

- Barney Dannelke
Pip R. Lagenta
2004-06-08 21:15:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:27:55 GMT, "Barney Dannelke"
Post by Barney Dannelke
Arrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay, I completely fucked that up.
You guys were right. Mark it on your calenders and send me cards every year
from now on.
It WAS D.C. Fontana and if instead of reading that intro. three times
yesterday I had bothered to read D.C.'s AFTERWORD - WHICH WAS STARING ME IN
THE FACE - I'd have never said what I said. Why my brain decided to
associate that with Bjo I will never know but I'm taking it out behind the
shed and pimp slapping it as soon as I finish typing this.
Doug pointed me in the right direction and I am once again in his debt. You
simply have no idea how many more ninjas this means I have to kill.
Thanks.
(It is a good thing that you can't see my "Vindication Dance". I do
it in full make-up.)


¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,
Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°

-- Pip R. Lagenta
President for Life
International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
(If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
---
<http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
(For Email: I'm at home, not work.)

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