Discussion:
j r sherman's latest poetry is plagiarized
(too old to reply)
Will Dockery
2003-12-31 20:53:47 UTC
Permalink
fuckin-A, cause i wrote it.
so what's the problem? if nothing else i "enhanced" orr's work. i gave it
life,
beauty, meaning. he will live on in the hearts of the living as long
*snip*

How will Orr be remembered when you never mentioned his name in any of the
posts?
Will
Will Dockery
2003-12-31 21:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Crystal
Will says...
I do believe the poetry you are referring to would be considered
"parody" not "plagiarism"
"homage", ms. crystal, it's "homage".
for i enhance, enrich and make better all that i touch and notice.
no, really, i do. ask anyone who knows me.
love and kisses,
j r sherman
An "homage" wouldn't be trying to pass off the work of another man as your
own... copyrighted, and the whole works. Bill Orr's original poem was to be
buried, in your plans.
Will
------------------------------------------------------------------
"A sad tale's best for winter: I have one
Of sprites and goblins."
------------------------------------------------------------------
j r sherman
2003-12-31 21:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Crystal
Will says...
I do believe the poetry you are referring to would be considered
"parody" not "plagiarism"
"homage", ms. crystal, it's "homage".
for i enhance, enrich and make better all that i touch and notice.
no, really, i do. ask anyone who knows me.
love and kisses,
j r sherman
An "homage" wouldn't be trying to pass off the work of another man as your
own... copyrighted,
how was i passing off the work of another as my own?
Post by Will Dockery
and the whole works. Bill Orr's original poem was to be
buried, in your plans.
how could i "bury" someone's posts in usenet, shit-writer? that's the joy of
newsgroups all posts are equal, at least in their ability to be seen by others.
people can pick and choose exactly what they wish to read and what they don't
wish to read, all are equal.

now if my poem was more funny and interesting than the shitty post orr made,
that does NOT mean i was trying to "bury" his post, it means that i am more
funny and interesting than orr! of course he is more than welcome to post
something even MORE funny and interesting than what i posted (yeah, when pigs
fly out of Edgar Allen Poe's ass he will!), because this is usenet, and an
unmoderated newsgroup, and anyone with access has just as equal a chance to post
and anyone else.

so, shit-writer, it's not POSSIBLE to bury something in usenet.

but why is the painfully obvious always so difficult for you to understand?

love and kisses,

j r sherman

------------------------------------------------------------------
"A sad tale's best for winter: I have one
Of sprites and goblins."
------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Dockery
2003-12-31 22:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
Crystal
Will says...
I do believe the poetry you are referring to would be considered
"parody" not "plagiarism"
"homage", ms. crystal, it's "homage".
for i enhance, enrich and make better all that i touch and notice.
no, really, i do. ask anyone who knows me.
love and kisses,
j r sherman
An "homage" wouldn't be trying to pass off the work of another man as your
own... copyrighted,
how was i passing off the work of another as my own?
Post by Will Dockery
and the whole works. Bill Orr's original poem was to be
buried, in your plans.
how could i "bury" someone's posts in usenet, shit-writer?
One way is to snip and post, snip and post. Another is to steal a poem,
rewrite it, and put your name on it.

that's the joy of
Post by j r sherman
newsgroups all posts are equal, at least in their ability to be seen by others.
Only at the moment of posting. Then it becomes a part of the archives, and
has to be searched for. You know that.
Post by j r sherman
people can pick and choose exactly what they wish to read and what they don't
wish to read, all are equal.
Not if the post is buried.
Post by j r sherman
now if my poem was more funny and interesting than the shitty post orr made,
that does NOT mean i was trying to "bury" his post, it means that i am more
funny and interesting than orr!
Orr had the original idea, as usual, you had no original idea.

of course he is more than welcome to post
Post by j r sherman
something even MORE funny and interesting than what i posted (yeah, when pigs
fly out of Edgar Allen Poe's ass he will!), because this is usenet, and an
unmoderated newsgroup, and anyone with access has just as equal a chance to post
and anyone else.
I agree. god bless Usenet!
Will

"Mirror Twins" Mp3:
http://www.lulu.com/content/29085
Dennis M. Hammes
2004-01-01 10:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
Crystal
Will says...
I do believe the poetry you are referring to would be considered
"parody" not "plagiarism"
"homage", ms. crystal, it's "homage".
for i enhance, enrich and make better all that i touch and notice.
no, really, i do. ask anyone who knows me.
love and kisses,
j r sherman
An "homage" wouldn't be trying to pass off the work of another man as your
own... copyrighted,
how was i passing off the work of another as my own?
Yeah. To pass off "the work of another," the "other" would actually
have had to have done some work, /and/ posted it in a
reasonably-public place, or one accessible to jr at a minimum.
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
and the whole works. Bill Orr's original poem was to be
buried, in your plans.
Oh, jr, jr, jr.
Your conspiracy to bury Mr. Orr has been /discovered/.
Post by j r sherman
how could i "bury" someone's posts in usenet, shit-writer? that's the joy of
newsgroups all posts are equal, at least in their ability to be seen by others.
people can pick and choose exactly what they wish to read and what they don't
wish to read, all are equal.
now if my poem was more funny and interesting than the shitty post orr made,
that does NOT mean i was trying to "bury" his post, it means that i am more
funny and interesting than orr! of course he is more than welcome to post
something even MORE funny and interesting than what i posted (yeah, when pigs
fly out of Edgar Allen Poe's ass he will!), because this is usenet, and an
unmoderated newsgroup, and anyone with access has just as equal a chance to post
and anyone else.
so, shit-writer, it's not POSSIBLE to bury something in usenet.
but why is the painfully obvious always so difficult for you to understand?
It's the old "Extending the Bottom of the Classification" Trick,
called academically "Adjusting the Curve," 99.
Mr. Dockery thinks that if he extends the bottom of the
classification, "PO-etry," or "work," or "interesting," to achieve
(by the force of his edict) "remembered," so as to include Mr. Orr,
that the extension will include the extender, Mr. Dockery.
It's the same technique by which political parasites attempt to
"establish" their own "Equal Rats" by "extending" the same to
Starving Children, Spotted Owls, lesser pin pines, lefthanded
field-mice, leucotoxic embryos, or one of the less-common flu
viruses.
Unfortunately, Mr. Dockery does not even realise that he is so
far, even unspeakably, below any extension he could suffer
"another's work" that he will /never/ salvage the classification of
his own by this method.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
chichi kinoko
nakute mo tsukamu
mizu-no tsuki
http://scrawlmark.org
Bill Warren
2004-01-01 18:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Why is this being posted in the Harlan Ellison area?
j r sherman
2003-12-31 21:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
fuckin-A, cause i wrote it.
so what's the problem? if nothing else i "enhanced" orr's work. i gave it
life,
beauty, meaning. he will live on in the hearts of the living as long
*snip*
How will Orr be remembered when you never mentioned his name in any of the
posts?
well, christ! if i did that, someone might go and read his one his shitty posts.
obviously i care more about people than you do, shit-writer.

love and kisses,

j r sherman

------------------------------------------------------------------
"A sad tale's best for winter: I have one
Of sprites and goblins."
------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Dockery
2003-12-31 22:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
fuckin-A, cause i wrote it.
so what's the problem? if nothing else i "enhanced" orr's work. i gave it
life,
beauty, meaning. he will live on in the hearts of the living as long
*snip*
How will Orr be remembered when you never mentioned his name in any of the
posts?
well, christ! if i did that, someone might go and read his one his shitty posts.
obviously i care more about people than you do
Another lie, thief.
Will

"Mirror Twins" Mp3:
http://www.lulu.com/content/29085
Dennis M. Hammes
2004-01-01 10:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by j r sherman
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
fuckin-A, cause i wrote it.
so what's the problem? if nothing else i "enhanced" orr's work. i gave
it
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
life,
beauty, meaning. he will live on in the hearts of the living as long
*snip*
How will Orr be remembered when you never mentioned his name in any of
the
Post by j r sherman
Post by Will Dockery
posts?
well, christ! if i did that, someone might go and read his one his shitty
posts.
Post by j r sherman
obviously i care more about people than you do
Another lie, thief.
Will
Bearing false witness is a summary capital offense.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
chichi kinoko
nakute mo tsukamu
mizu-no tsuki
http://scrawlmark.org
Barney Dannelke
2004-01-01 16:12:23 UTC
Permalink
**EVERYTHING** snipped.

Christ on a crutch! I normally hate topic police posts because they're so
anal but you guys have all gone completely around the bend. I mean, what's
the problem? Is a group that could meaningfully talk about fanzines,
prozines, the history of Science Fiction and Fantasy, mens magazines,
movies, Star Trek, B-5, comic books, television, Bruce Lee, PK Dick, LA
architecture, gang culture, literature and lit/crit, the state of the essay,
Leo and Diane Dillon and, and, oh yeah, the 50 year career of Harlan Ellison
really too damned RESTRICTIVE??

None of this has anything to do with Harlan Ellison. As if you didn't know.

PLEASE keep this bickering over on rec.arts.poetry or, well, anydamnplace
but here.

- Barney Dannelke
Will Dockery
2004-01-06 22:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barney Dannelke
**EVERYTHING** snipped.
Christ on a crutch! I normally hate topic police posts because they're so
anal but you guys have all gone completely around the bend. I mean, what's
the problem? Is a group that could meaningfully talk about fanzines,
prozines, the history of Science Fiction and Fantasy, mens magazines,
movies, Star Trek, B-5, comic books, television, Bruce Lee, PK Dick, LA
architecture, gang culture, literature and lit/crit, the state of the essay,
Leo and Diane Dillon and, and, oh yeah, the 50 year career of Harlan Ellison
really too damned RESTRICTIVE??
None of this has anything to do with Harlan Ellison. As if you didn't know.
PLEASE keep this bickering over on rec.arts.poetry or, well, anydamnplace
but here.
- Barney Dannelke
Sorry to rile you, Barney. The reason I crossposted this over here was
because J.R. Sherman, who claimed to have met a *drunk* Harlan Ellison
in 1984, was just a few days later discovered to have stolen some
poetry, rewrote it slightly, and then put his name on it. So, there's
a HE connection, though slight. I'm *not* crossposting this reply, by
the way! So let's get some Ellison topics rolling, like, is the topic
of the last Dangerous Visions anthology, or something... I suppose
everyone, even Harlan, agrees that it's never coming out, by now,
right? And all these years, I wonder just why not? I can still never
exactly figure out *why* he didn't just get the collection out, in
whatever form possible, and be done with it?
Will

Mirror Twins Mp3:
http://www.lulu.com/content/29085
Bill Warren
2004-01-07 03:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
the topic
of the last Dangerous Visions anthology, or something... I suppose
everyone, even Harlan, agrees that it's never coming out, by now,
right? And all these years, I wonder just why not? I can still never
exactly figure out *why* he didn't just get the collection out, in
whatever form possible, and be done with it?
That's a good question, but I don't think there's a good answer. Harlan used
to have the entire manuscript on the wide rail that runs around the deck above
his pool table. I haven't been to his place in years, so I don't know if it's
still there, but I think someone told me it isn't. He had it there to remind
him to finish what he had to do on it, but for whatever reason, he just
couldn't bring himself to complete what he felt he needed to do.
Will Dockery
2004-01-07 07:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Warren
Post by Will Dockery
the topic
of the last Dangerous Visions anthology, or something... I suppose
everyone, even Harlan, agrees that it's never coming out, by now,
right? And all these years, I wonder just why not? I can still never
exactly figure out *why* he didn't just get the collection out, in
whatever form possible, and be done with it?
That's a good question, but I don't think there's a good answer. Harlan used
to have the entire manuscript on the wide rail that runs around the deck above
his pool table. I haven't been to his place in years, so I don't know if it's
still there, but I think someone told me it isn't. He had it there to remind
him to finish what he had to do on it, but for whatever reason, he just
couldn't bring himself to complete what he felt he needed to do.
Well, from that, if what the person said is true, and of course
everyone by now knows not to ask Ellison, I guess it truly is time to
let Dangerous Visions rest. Who knows, maybe *that* is what he's
waiting for? When everyone, friend and enemy, lets the thing drop,
maybe he could then let it come out? I don't buy the "hopelessly
outdated" angle, the thing at the very least is an incredible
historical "time capsule", and at most the masterpiece he always said
it was.
Will

Mirror Twins Mp3:
http://www.lulu.com/content/29085

Beau Blue
2004-01-01 01:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
fuckin-A, cause i wrote it.
so what's the problem? if nothing else i "enhanced" orr's work. i gave it
life,
beauty, meaning. he will live on in the hearts of the living as long
*snip*
How will Orr be remembered when you never mentioned his name in any of the
posts?
Will
I don't know how Bill will be remembered.

But for you, Will, you'll be remembered as someone else
who posted stuff to the group without first learning what the
words 'alliteration', 'assonance' and 'consonance' mean. As
someone else without the ability to construct a decent metaphor,
or even know the meaning of the word, or the words 'metonymy',
'allegory', 'paradox', 'overstatment', 'understatement', or 'irony'.
As well, you're ignorant of the meaning of the word 'satire'.

What amazes me is the pride you take in your ignorance.
Your inability 'to get' what Jim's about reveals an award-winning
thickheadedness. Jim, for some reason, finds it amusing. I find it
pathetic. You want the 'tang but you don't wanna have to do no work.
That's why you're driving delivery for a living, "pretty sure" you're
on the path for fame and fortune, with the doorstep of immortality
just around some corner. Don't hold your breath.

-blue

* *
*

The Grey Squirrel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Like a small grey
coffee-pot
sits the squirrel.
He is not

All he should be,
kills by dozens
trees, and eats
his red-brown cousins.

The keeper, on the
other hand
, who shot him, is
a Christian, and

loves his enemies,
which shows
the squirrel was not
one of those.

-Humbert Wolfe
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