"I, Robot" now being made...

[Matthew Dickinson]

... but without Harlan Ellison's script. I'm not sure if this is old
news, but I just saw the teaser last night before "Return of the
King." This makes me so fucking mad. I can't fucking believe it. And
it's gonna star Will Smith. Am I dreaming...?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0343818/fullcredits#writers

Matthew

[Larry Madill]

Post by Matthew Dickinson
This makes me so fucking mad.

Why? Its a movie. See or don't go see it. For christsake unless you work in
the film idnustry there's nothing to get angry about. Save your angry for
someone starving in Africa, or someone who just got mowed down in Iraq by US
troops.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
I can't fucking believe it.

Believe it.

Actually, 20th Century did something very smart. They took a project that
had been near-death for years, bought another script that worked about
robots, re-titled and re-wrotethat original script, and BANG I, Robot.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
And
it's gonna star Will Smith.

So? He's a good actor. What, because there weren't any black people in I
Robot the book, a black actor cannot be in the movie?

Post by Matthew Dickinson
Am I dreaming...?

Yes, go back to bed.

Larry

[Jaime M. de Castellvi]

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:52:11 -0800, "Larry Madill"

Post by Larry Madill

Post by Matthew Dickinson
This makes me so fucking mad.

Why? Its a movie. See or don't go see it. For christsake unless you work in
the film idnustry there's nothing to get angry about. Save your angry for
someone starving in Africa, or someone who just got mowed down in Iraq by US
troops.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
I can't fucking believe it.

Believe it.
Actually, 20th Century did something very smart. They took a project that
had been near-death for years, bought another script that worked about
robots, re-titled and re-wrotethat original script, and BANG I, Robot.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
And
it's gonna star Will Smith.

So? He's a good actor. What, because there weren't any black people in I
Robot the book, a black actor cannot be in the movie?

Post by Matthew Dickinson
Am I dreaming...?

Yes, go back to bed.

Life is full of rough awakenings :~)

Cheers,

Jaime

[Matthew Dickinson]

Post by Larry Madill

Post by Matthew Dickinson
This makes me so fucking mad.

Why? Its a movie. See or don't go see it. For christsake unless you work in
the film idnustry there's nothing to get angry about. Save your angry for
someone starving in Africa, or someone who just got mowed down in Iraq by US
troops.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
I can't fucking believe it.

Believe it.
Actually, 20th Century did something very smart. They took a project that
had been near-death for years, bought another script that worked about
robots, re-titled and re-wrotethat original script, and BANG I, Robot.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
And
it's gonna star Will Smith.

So? He's a good actor. What, because there weren't any black people in I
Robot the book, a black actor cannot be in the movie?

Post by Matthew Dickinson
Am I dreaming...?

Yes, go back to bed.
Larry

You think a screenplay written by the writer of "Batman and Robin" is
going to be as good as Ellison's? You wouldn't rather have his made,
especially given that Asimov wanted it to be made from this script as
well?

And race did not enter my mind when I named Will Smith...

Matthew

[Bill Warren]

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You think a screenplay written by the writer of "Batman and Robin" is
going to be as good as Ellison's?

It's possible. Not likely, but possible.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You wouldn't rather have his made,
especially given that Asimov wanted it to be made from this script as
well?

I actually don't think the opinion of the original author is especially
relevant when discussing a movie based on what they've written.

[Larry Madill]

Post by Bill Warren

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You wouldn't rather have his made,
especially given that Asimov wanted it to be made from this script as
well?

I actually don't think the opinion of the original author is especially
relevant when discussing a movie based on what they've written.

Especially when I Robot was never a book per se but a collage of stories
with the same theme. It always struck me as sort of a dumb idea to turn it
into a film because there's really no movie there. Unlike Foundation and the
Robots of Dawn books.

But not as dumb as John Woo directing and Bennifer Affleck-Lopez starring in
an actionized version of Phil dick's "Paycheck."


Larry

[Bill Warren]

Post by Larry Madill
I Robot was never a book per se but a collage of stories
with the same theme. It always struck me as sort of a dumb idea to turn it
into a film because there's really no movie there.

The best aspect of Harlan's script was the CITIZEN KANE-inspired solution he
found to tell several of the stories within the context of an overall story.

[Larry Madill]

Post by Bill Warren

Post by Larry Madill
I Robot was never a book per se but a collage of stories
with the same theme. It always struck me as sort of a dumb idea to turn it
into a film because there's really no movie there.

The best aspect of Harlan's script was the CITIZEN KANE-inspired solution he
found to tell several of the stories within the context of an overall story.

Yeah, and its not a bad solution for what it was. I don't blame Harlan for
the shortcomings in adapting the book. I blame the execs that thought I
Robot would make a good film.

Larry

Larry

[Larry Madill]

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You think a screenplay written by the writer of "Batman and Robin" is
going to be as good as Ellison's?

Maybe. I know that's hersey but...

First I should say I never liked the I, Robot script Ellison wrote as much
as some. It had its moment, but I still think it did not address the
dramatic conflicts you need in a feature length film. I was frankly
speaking -- bored by it.

Secondly, and this I know from first hand experience, a bad script from a
screenwriter does not neccessarily equal a bad screenwriter. Scripts get
fucked up for a lot of reasons and seventy percent are not the fault of the
writer. And even if the Batman and Robin script (which I don't think was
that horrible; I think its failure lies solely with Joel Schummacher's
re-imagining Batman as 1920s German Cabaret) was bad. So what?

Writers - even terribly successful writers - have off moments. Bad ideas,
bad stories, bad novels, bad scripts. I think we can agree that among
Harlan's many gems there have been more than a handful of lumps of coal.
Same thing with screenwriters.

Look at Brian Hegeland who has written some of the best scripts ever made
(L.A. Confindential, Mystic River, etc) and also some of the worst
(Bloodwork, The Order, etc). And, hell he is going to probably win a second
academy award this year.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You wouldn't rather have his made,
especially given that Asimov wanted it to be made from this script as
well?

Authors of novels often have a rather bad idea of what makes a good scripts.
As forms of literature a novel is as different from a script as a Chevy is
to a Bentley. Novels are long, flowing, hopefully engrossingly written
explorations of words and metaphors that amble on in their own span of life
and death.

Scripts are mean, lean, and that exceptionally poorly written visual
blueprints for a director, actors, and 100 man crew needs to assemble a
flimic masterwork. Or the next Hollywood blockbuster.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
And race did not enter my mind when I named Will Smith...

That's good. I am a little quick to jump on race simply because I've noticed
a nasty trend in certain science fiction fans - especially from and of the
Golden Era of Pulp - to have a very white washed view of Sci-Fi fiction and
fantasy. Throw in a ctoken Asian and a token black, and the white race goes
around the galaxy saving humanity from itself.

I still don't know your objection to Will Smith then. He's a fine actor. And
depending on the script, I think he works as a detective in the Future.

Larry

[Jaime M. de Castellvi]

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:50:40 -0800, "Larry Madill"

Post by Larry Madill

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You think a screenplay written by the writer of "Batman and Robin" is
going to be as good as Ellison's?

Maybe. I know that's hersey but...

I'm going to be a dick for a sec here... It's either Hershey (if
you're either into PA-made chocolate or Barbara as she was about a
decade ago) or hearsay, if you mean it the way it seems you mean.

Post by Larry Madill
First I should say I never liked the I, Robot script Ellison wrote as much
as some. It had its moment, but I still think it did not address the
dramatic conflicts you need in a feature length film. I was frankly
speaking -- bored by it.
Secondly, and this I know from first hand experience, a bad script from a
screenwriter does not neccessarily equal a bad screenwriter. Scripts get
fucked up for a lot of reasons and seventy percent are not the fault of the
writer. And even if the Batman and Robin script (which I don't think was
that horrible; I think its failure lies solely with Joel Schummacher's
re-imagining Batman as 1920s German Cabaret) was bad. So what?
Writers - even terribly successful writers - have off moments. Bad ideas,
bad stories, bad novels, bad scripts. I think we can agree that among
Harlan's many gems there have been more than a handful of lumps of coal.
Same thing with screenwriters.
Look at Brian Hegeland who has written some of the best scripts ever made
(L.A. Confindential, Mystic River, etc) and also some of the worst
(Bloodwork, The Order, etc). And, hell he is going to probably win a second
academy award this year.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You wouldn't rather have his made,
especially given that Asimov wanted it to be made from this script as
well?

Authors of novels often have a rather bad idea of what makes a good scripts.
As forms of literature a novel is as different from a script as a Chevy is
to a Bentley. Novels are long, flowing, hopefully engrossingly written
explorations of words and metaphors that amble on in their own span of life
and death.
Scripts are mean, lean, and that exceptionally poorly written visual
blueprints for a director, actors, and 100 man crew needs to assemble a
flimic masterwork. Or the next Hollywood blockbuster.

Post by Matthew Dickinson
And race did not enter my mind when I named Will Smith...

That's good. I am a little quick to jump on race simply because I've noticed
a nasty trend in certain science fiction fans - especially from and of the
Golden Era of Pulp - to have a very white washed view of Sci-Fi fiction and
fantasy. Throw in a ctoken Asian and a token black, and the white race goes
around the galaxy saving humanity from itself.

I've been a token Spic for a meaningful portion of my life, so I'm
with you here. I might feel a little more comfy about it if your name
was "Madillo". Don't get me wrong, I think you're trying to be
sincere, it's just that crocodrile tears abound in this world, and
while I applaud the effort of anyone who is not in a minority to try
to understand what's like to be in a minority, I also aim to be
cautious. Some folks are sincere, some are just fashion bandwagon
jumpers, frolicking on the latest fashionable soundbite.

Post by Larry Madill
I still don't know your objection to Will Smith then. He's a fine actor. And
depending on the script, I think he works as a detective in the Future.

Some honkie folks object to him on the basis that he's got a big
shlong, which fact seems to make them insecure for some odd reason.

Cheers,

Jaime

[Max Read]

Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:50:40 -0800, "Larry Madill"

Post by Larry Madill

Post by Matthew Dickinson
You think a screenplay written by the writer of "Batman and Robin" is
going to be as good as Ellison's?

Maybe. I know that's hersey but...

I'm going to be a dick for a sec here... It's either Hershey (if
you're either into PA-made chocolate or Barbara as she was about a
decade ago) or hearsay, if you mean it the way it seems you mean.

Or "heresy", if you mean "contrary to accepted doctrine", which I
suspect you did.

mx

[Will Dockery]

To pass on Harlan Ellison's "I Robot" just proves once again the
idiocy of Hollywood. Hopefully, he'll find enough stolen material to
sue.
Will

"Mirror Twins" MP3, free preview:
http://my.lulu.com/content/29085

[Ed Rhodes]

Post by Will Dockery
To pass on Harlan Ellison's "I Robot" just proves once again the
idiocy of Hollywood. Hopefully, he'll find enough stolen material to
sue.
Will

Only if there's something from his script that he didn't get from the
stories. (Frankly, I liked the work team of ants and their supervisor who
got the job because they ATE his predecesor.)

[Matthew Dickinson]

Google's not letting me retrieve your message, but this is in response
to Larry Madill.

I'm not gonna try to argue here over the merits of Batman and Robin
(or Dark City, for that matter), but it was obvious to me from the day
I read Ellison's books that he's really something special. Even when
he's bad he's generally better, and certainly more interesting, than
most science fiction or fantasy films of today, and really of
yesteryear, or since day 1 in Hollywood. There's been a few that have
skyrocketed into greatness, but it's rare. That script of "I, Robot"
in the right hands would definitely be a contender. And Ellison's
apparently rather visually talented, perhaps more so than he is with
words actually, judging by very subtle things about his books,
especially his covers, or just in the way he writes. I'm not familiar
with this newsgroup and what you all are like. Maybe you think Return
of the King is the greatest fantasy movie ever made. I don't. I really
don't see much in those movies at all, but you know...

And I mentioned Will Smith as I did because it seemed like a bad sign,
along with other signs, of another big budget extravaganga with no
heart and no soul. The ad campaign, for instance - I wouldn't be
surprised if it turns out to be more creative and interesting than the
movie itself. I do kind of like the way the robot on the website
looks, though. Of course final judgment will wait with the film
itself. I think it comes out in July of next year.

And yeah, Will Smith's a good actor. But he's also a superstar who's
been in a lot of dull, moronic blockbusters.

Matthew

[Ed Rhodes]

Post by Larry Madill

Post by Matthew Dickinson
And race did not enter my mind when I named Will Smith...

That's good. I am a little quick to jump on race simply because I've noticed
a nasty trend in certain science fiction fans - especially from and of the
Golden Era of Pulp - to have a very white washed view of Sci-Fi fiction and
fantasy. Throw in a ctoken Asian and a token black, and the white race goes
around the galaxy saving humanity from itself.
I still don't know your objection to Will Smith then. He's a fine actor. And
depending on the script, I think he works as a detective in the Future.

That would be great if they were filming "Caves of Steel." (I always thought
Pierce Brosnan would be a good R. Daniel Olivaw.)

As far as an objection to Will Smith. I'd have to say if I had one it would
be based on his turning all his characters into "the Will Smith show." Let's
face it, he did a far better job of creating a real character in
"Independence Day" and "Six Degrees of Separation" than he did in "Wild Wild
West."